Dolphin for sure. I could make some repaints for Polish Air Force 1920.
Pfalz DXII
Nieuport 28
Sopwith Dolphin
Dolphin for sure. I could make some repaints for Polish Air Force 1920.
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW ?
take care
KeithOriginally Posted by Jager
Speak up, Keith; the back row might not have heard you
I voted Pfalz, but I have all three (and many more) late/post/might-have-been planes (waiting to be painted mumble...).
Karl
I also voted for the Dolphin, 4 x A's at short range
I have to say the Nieuport 28. I read Rickenbacker's bio in junior high, fell in love with WWI aircraft and the 28 in particular. I bought every 1/72 kit I could find and it was always my favorite. Don't get me wrong, the others are great planes and in many ways superior, but just loved the look of that one.
I voted for the Phaflz D-XII. I can get my hands on the Dolphin & Nieuport 28 models...
I would have liked to pick SPAD S.XIII but it wasn't on there. I'd go with Eddie Rickenbacker since my great grandfather was his mechanic when he used to race in Indianapolis. RickSpad.jpg
Otherwise I'd go with the Nieuport 28 with the same pilot.
Nieuport 28!!! Nieuport 28!!! Nieuport 28!!! I want the Nieuport 28!!!
You should definately go with the Nieuport, since the spad with eddie was published in series one by nexus and as WGF101A by Ares.
Unfortunately though, my preference would be one of the late war german ground attack birds, but since we are discussing fighters, I would request still more Fokker D.VII's instead.
Nieuport-28C1-94th-Aero-Squadron-AEF-sn12-N6159-Lt-Edward-V_Rickenbacker-600px.jpg
Rickenbacker's Nieuport 28 (I hope. One never knows for sure on the internets what is actually true <g>).
I think your pic is more accurate than mine. The fuselage was smaller on the Nieuport so the guns were offset to the left.
RickNieu.jpg
Okay, found a better pic. Hope this isn't too large otherwise I will have to resize it.
EddieNieuport28.jpg
The appearance of the hat-in-the-ring emblem is very interesting in JC's pic. The top of the hat looks unpainted or something.
I found another pic of a 28, not Rickenbacker's but still a decent period photo.
nieuport28.jpg
Note the two crosses on the hat's brim. Kill marks, I would assume.
Perhaps that is a pic of Major John William Francis Mary Huffer taken between May 17, 1918 and July 25, 1918 before Rickenbacker piloted that plane. The only victories on record for Huffer was those while serving in the French Lafayette Flying Corps.
Major John W.F.M. Huffer and Major Raoul Lufbery stand and smoke beside a Nieuport 28 C-l in Toul, France in this video.
It could have been Lt. John Wentworth whom piloted that plane (N6168) prior to Huffer. You can see a snake around the cowl faintly. Perhaps this N-28-N6168.jpg will show it better.
I found my info at these links Aircraft-Photos, 94th, and The Lafayette Flying Corps volume1. I didn't see any markings on any other pics I found but they do appear to be kill tallies.
Kudos, Kermit. Nice bit of background.
I thought that once Alastair but sadly not correct ! The two Lewis guns were mounted on the forward cabane crossbar set to be firing at an upward angle to avoid hitting the prop. The mounting provided three positions in elevation and limited sideways movement. Many pilots removed the Lewis guns worried, amongst other things, about the damage the weapon would cause to them in the event of a crash & the aircraft flipping onto its back. Don't let that change your vote though !I also voted for the Dolphin, 4 x A's at short range
Looks like we have 3/4 of a great late war series. The only question is which German scout would take the 4th spot. I'd go with the Fokker E.V/D.VIII, or SSW D.IV.
The SSW D.IV would make the perfect match for the Dolphin, since they both excelled at high altitude:Other serious possibilities would be the Pfalz D.VIII, Fokker D.VI, and Roland D.VI....and at heights above 4,000 m (13,100 ft) {the SSW D.IV} was faster and more manoeuvrable than the Fokker D.VII. Its most notable feature was its phenomenal rate of climb and extremely high service ceiling—it could reach 6,000 m (19,700 ft) in less than 14˝ minutes. In 36 minutes it could reach 8,100 m (26,600 ft), about 1,200 m (3,900 ft) higher than the Fokker's maximum altitude.
Last edited by greenalfonzo; 05-27-2013 at 14:40.
I would guess glare off the fuselage. Or age of the picture has the colors blending in.
Karl
There really isn't any difference between the SSW D.III and D.IV (at least at WGF scale); a hair faster in level speed and less then that increase in climb.
The cowling cutaway appeared in the D.III after factory mods.
A better possibility would be the Junkers D.I. Very unique looking plane.
Karl
It had a completely different wing shape as well, with a much narrower top wing that gave it a very noticeably different appearance. And there is the not so small point that the Germans themselves rated it officially as their best fighter of the war. How can you have a WWI aviation game without the Germans' best plane?
The Junkers D.I was nothing more than a curiosity. All of 10 were made, and they were quickly shipped off to the Eastern front after they were rated as not being good enough for front line duty.
I hadn't looked closely at the 3 way views of each (none of my books had both planes), so checking Blueprints.com
( http://www.the-blueprints.com/bluepr...huckert_d-iii/ ) and
( http://www.the-blueprints.com/bluepr...chuckert_d_iv/)
there is a very noticeable difference. Ares still gives them the same stats, though.I have to wonder why Ares released the D.III instead of the D.IV.
Still, I have a brace of D.IVs from Shapeways waiting for the paintbrush
Interesting: Grey & Thetford states in the text that the D.IV had a much improved climb rate, but the table for that says not. The only real difference is above 4000m. .
From what I read, it simply showed up too late. It may not have been as maneuverable as the Fokkers, but neither was the SPAD XII; and it was fast and durable.
The biggest problem was Junkers inefficiencies in manufacturing the planes, and the fact that an all metal plane couldn't have parts construction farmed out like the normal planes of the day.
Several D.Is were found in Belgium following the Armistice (and apparently some in good condition despite having sat out in the weather all winter), and they may have been issued to the Marinkorps Flandern, but no AAR exists describing them in the air.
Their use in the Baltic stems from the post-war chaos there, and the efforts of the Entente governments to crush the Bolsheviks in Russia, or at least contain them. Apparently, some of the Armistice terms required the German Government to keep troops there for just this purpose (while still being blockaded by the British Fleet. Go figure). The air support element, Kampfgeschwader Sachsenberg, drew volunteers from the Marinrfriekorps, and that may have been a source of the Junkers, both D.Is and Cl.Is. Sachsenberg was an admirer of the Junkers planes, liking their durability in the harsh weather, esp. since tents and hangers were scarce or non-existent.
Karl
Interesting info Karl.
I really like the blueprints. I also noticed the different rudder shape between the SSW III & IV. I am someone that tends to give greater weight to contemporary accounts on relative performance over the statistics and tables that have filtered their way down to us. For example, I really take notice when the pilots who actually flew the things state that the SSW D.IV was definitely superior to the SSW D.III, the same way I always remember that the pilots that flew the Albatroses almost unanimously complained that the D.V was no better than the D.III. Interestingly, while the SSW's had some sharp physical distinctions, the two Albatroses were almost identical. As a fan of the game, I am glad that the are only doing the SSW D.III, since that means I might get an entire series of just the D.IV! Also as a fan of the game, differing performances at altitude could add some really fun tactical issues to the game for planes like the SSW D.IV and Sopwith Dolphin, if only some clever chap would take the time to work it out!
It's disappointing that their are no accounts of the Junkers planes in action, but I just keep coming back to the fact that there must be a reason for it. You'd have to think that if such a distinctive and innovative aircraft saw any kind of active service there would be accounts of it. I guess there is one of the J CL.I that shot down Mick Mannock, but that 2 seater was out earlier. Considering the number of actual combat-documented fighters that the Germans fielded in late 1918, I'd really prefer to push this one back as a model to a future "WOG 1919" series. Put the J D.I in with the Nieuport 29, Martinsyde Buzzard, and Pfalz XV and you'd have a pretty nice set.
Not to go against the grain, but I'd like to see the Pfalz DXII.
I voted for that one as well. I think that they all are a given eventually due to the series release system. The question is what German scout #2 would be in a late 1918 series? As the poll above lists them, we have the Dolphin & N.28 for the allies, and then the Pfalz D.XII & ? for the Germans.Not to go against the grain, but I'd like to see the Pfalz DXII.
Here are all the options for the second German scout:
Roland D.VI
Fokker D.VI
Fokker E.V/D.VIII
SSW D.IV
Maybe we should do another poll?
Last edited by greenalfonzo; 06-01-2013 at 20:32.
As far as I can find which isn't very much), the aircraft supporting the Germans in the 1919-1920 Baltic actions were used solely for ground attack. They apparently faced no opposition in the air, or it was so thin that opposing planes didn't run into each other. Of course, this was much the same for a lot of the Eastern European fighting post-war.
I hadn't read about Mannock being shot down by a Junkers; I always read it was ground fire. There were only a handful of Cl.1s in service by November; again production delays etc.
I like the idea of a Plan 1919 set; probably too speculative for Ares, though
Karl
I went back and read the thread where I got that info on the aerodrome forum, and it stated that Mannock was KIA after attacking a J CL.I, but not necessarily by the Junkers itself.I hadn't read about Mannock being shot down by a Junkers; I always read it was ground fire. There were only a handful of Cl.1s in service by November; again production delays etc.
I like the idea of a Plan 1919 set; probably too speculative for Ares, though
Karl
Interesting birds. I'm thinking that we might be seeing them after Ares gets to Series 12 or so!
Although the Junkers J.10/CL.I was flying in Dec 17, I'm surprised it was in operational service on 26 Jul 18. According to 'Who Downed the Aces in WWI' (Franks, Grub Street 1996) Mannock's final victim was a DFW C.V (2216/18) of FA(A)292.
Additionally, the Frontbeststand (though admittedly not 100% accurate, particularly for the latter stages of 1918) has no listing for a Junkers CL.I ever being received at the Front, and 'Development of German Warplanes in WWI' (Herris, Aeronaut 2012), probably the most recent book to cover the subject, states that the Junkers CL.I 'arrived too late for combat in WWI...'.
Last edited by Baldrick62; 06-02-2013 at 12:15. Reason: add'n'l info
Wiki article says an LVG two-seater; the Aerodrome one just says a C type. The Spartacus Educational biography ( http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWmannock.htm ) which was one of the links from Wiki, says an Albatross. Have to wonder why it's so hard to type the plane? I mean, yeh it's combat at split-second speeds, but didn't Inglis' report give a type? And if not, why all the guessing?
For me, I have a couple of Shapeways waiting their turn
Karl
I picked up the Mannock/Junkers bit from this thread: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/20...uring-ww1.htmlWiki article says an LVG two-seater; the Aerodrome one just says a C type. The Spartacus Educational biography ( http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWmannock.htm ) which was one of the links from Wiki, says an Albatross. Have to wonder why it's so hard to type the plane? I mean, yeh it's combat at split-second speeds, but didn't Inglis' report give a type? And if not, why all the guessing?
For me, I have a couple of Shapeways waiting their turn
Karl
It's unattributed, but I'd always tended to assume unchallenged info that gets posted over there was accurate.
If only I had the talent you guys do with the paint brushes!
Went and looked at it; very odd no one jumped in. I would have assumed the same.
Wait to envy my talent until I post the results. You might change your mind
Karl
Yes, curiouser and curiouser!
According to Dudgeon the crew were Ltn d R Ludwig Schöpf (*31.12.1893 Pfaffenhausen, +26.07.1918 La Croix-Marmuse) and Vfw Joseph Hein (*12.06.1894 Dortmund, +26.07.1918 La Croix-Marmuse) - Vermutlich wurden sie von Mick Mannock abgeschossen (Presumably, they were shot by Mick Mannock - Google Translate) http://www.frontflieger.de/3-h-f.html.
As for Inglis' target recognition (or lack thereof), the reason he was out with Mannock that morning was because he was a tyro who hadn't yet scored a victory.
Last edited by Baldrick62; 06-03-2013 at 15:15.
While a Junkers CL.I at the front in Jul 18 is hugely suspect, a Junkers J.I is quite credible. 'The first production machine, J.I 100/17, was shipped to Flanders (4th Army) to join FA 19 which, on August 1 1917, introduced the all-metal Junkers J.I to combat.' - Windsock Datafile 39, P M Grosz, Albatros 1993.
I asked a question on 'The Aerodrome' and got this from Russ Gannon:
'I think we can be pretty certain Mannock (& Inglis) downed the FAA 292 crew of Vfw Hein & Ltn Scopf on DFW CV 2216/18, as the Kofl 6 data re its loss matches for both time and location. Fell in flames SW Lestrem at 0639GT crashing at Croix Marmuse.
'I believe the earlier confusion as to a Junkers goes back to Douglas Whetton's 'Mannock, Patrol Leader Supreme' (1977) where the deduction in regards their opponent was the FAA 204 crew of Uffz Leffering & Ltn Jahnert who were believed to be have been lost on a Junkers JI, the crew also being associated with G/ 2Bde /20 - a machine down in British 2 Army lines, but otherwise given as a LVG CV.
'26 Jul 18 was a pretty quiet day air combat wise, the only other serious 2-seater loss was a FAA 232 DFW (CV 1342/18) forced down in British lines on the Somme by B Flight of 24 Sqn (led by Lt Barton) and accorded capture serial of G/ 5 Bde / 19.'
I want them all! Ok, I voted for the Dolphin. Just got some from Shapeways, still looking for the time to start painting them!
i voted for the pfalz dxii because i love german a/c but i reall want all 3!
Pfalz DXII for me, please!
The Sopwith Dolphin for sure.
Another vote from me for a late war set featuring all of three these planes. Along with the Fokker D.VIII, just because it is so unique and cool, and had the distinction of scoring the last German air victory of the war.
Pfalz for me.
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
Better late then never Sopwith Dolphin all the way
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks