Questions on BE2C Firing arcs.
Hello Guys,
Playing a campaign series of games starting 1915. We have played a couple of games using Eindeckers vs BE2c's. Surprisingly the BE2c's used in numbers have faired rather well against similar numbers of Eindeckers. This has led us to thinking, is there a restriction/delay in firing with the BE2c's when transferring from one firing arc to another? Has anyone got any stats for the BE2c please.
Thanks in anticipation,
Smithy1854
I enjoy games that feature one BE2 and two Fokkers. The Fokkers certainly have the advantage in regards to speed and maneuverability. I like to give the BE2 a quick mission ..... fly on the mat, recon a target, fly off the mat, for example. It's slow but exciting at the same time. The BEE can have as many as four gun mounts. I usually go with two candlestick mounts for forward/lateral firing, and a Strange mount for lateral/aft firing. Typically, I require one full turn (three phases) to change the BEE's gun to a different mount. The key to success for the BEE (I find) is to avoid a dogfight as much as possible. It's definately a fun match-up
Well, there's a can of worms. As there's not official mini, any rules regarding the B E 2 are going to have to be house rules. Here: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...p?do=cat&id=59 is a good place to start, with the files from the unofficial stats committee. From there, however:
The B E 2, particularly the C sub-variant was provided with a number of firing arcs for its Lewis gun. The sources I am using are "Fokker Fodder", Paul R Hare (https://www.fonthill.media/en-us/pro...factory-b-e-2c) , and one of the memoirs by WW I pilots, "Wind in the Wires", Duncan Grinnell-Milne (https://www.amazon.com/Wind-Wires-Du.../dp/1909808016).
The options:
1. A fixed mount firing at a roughly 45 degree angle upwards, forward over the top wing and propeller arc, more or less equivalent to the front arc provided on most single-set aircraft in the game, but with some sort of restrictions to account for the wird angle-no firing at an aircraft at the same altitude level, for example;
2. a fixed mount on either the right or left side, fired more or less level with the longitudinal axis of the iarcraft, and between the propeller arc and the struts on the respective side there is no standard firing arc in game terms;
either of these would need to be set up on the ground, before the flight;
3. a somewhat flexible sliding mount on either side of the cockpit; the gun, after some delay in game turns could be switched from side to side, as needed. Probably a modified standard rear firing arc, for example, of mounted ont he right side, maybe the right side arc behind the right wing to where the arc would end up clipping the right stabilizer. Just an example. And possibly, after a 1-turn delay for switching the gun to the left side, a mirror imaged arc there. This assumes a target aircraft at the same altitude level as the firing aircraft, or below the aircraft; for a target above the firing aircraft, a much less restricted arc.
All of these options assume the observer is the one shooting; I could find no references to the pilot being able to reach the gun, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some scheme enacted to allow for such , sometime, somewhere.
Hope this helps, but like I said, it's a can of worms.
Last edited by zenlizard; 02-22-2024 at 06:08.
I play the Bee's similarly to what Larry and Sam describe.
The card text is sometimes blurry for some reason on these, but usually prints ok from the pdf version.
machine gun: Rear-firing Strange mount and two front/side Candlestick mounts, only one of which may be used at a time. Two firing phases to move the gun.
BE2c: XB deck, 10 hit points, ceiling 8, climb rate 6
BE2e: XB deck, 13 hit points, ceiling 7, climb rate 7
pdf version: BE2c_e-1.pdf
I play the BE2c as per the card above (note: no firing to the rear - pilot in the way!)
I require a full three phases/cards to move the gun from one post to another; I don't believe that a 30lb gun+ammo pan+ mounting assembly can be moved in a 60 mph wind in only 4 seconds!!! Even 6 seconds (three cards) is optimistic!
Sam's example #1 (the 45 degree upward firing arc) is for Home Defence anti-zeppelin planes, and would not be combined with any other armament options.
I do enjoy playing BE2s - at 'Origins' this year my BE2c shot down two Turkish Eindeckers, in exchange for just a single '0' damage cards!
A pack of Turks hunted me down and got me in the end, but it was great fun.
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...hlight=Origins
Last edited by Flying Helmut; 02-22-2024 at 06:25.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Sam mentioned the book Wind in the Wires....I highly recommend this book to anyone interested reading a first hand account of flying both the BE2 and the Maurice Farman F.11.
BE2c is a fun plane to fly. (I've only done so twice myself) It is a bit clunky, slow maneuver and the swapping of the gun around, but all of it's contemporaries are also slow and clunky in their own way too. It is surely different. A fun challenge to fly.
Really nice set of BEE cards, Chris.Originally Posted by malachi
I play the Bee's similarly to what Larry and Sam describe.
The card text is sometimes blurry for some reason on these, but usually prints ok from the pdf version.
machine gun: Rear-firing Strange mount and two front/side Candlestick mounts, only one of which may be used at a time. Two firing phases to move the gun.
BE2c: XB deck, 10 hit points, ceiling 8, climb rate 6
BE2e: XB deck, 13 hit points, ceiling 7, climb rate 7
pdf version: BE2c_e-1.pdf
I'm glad that's cleared up. I thought my Einderkers were fighting Flying Fortresses. 🙂
As with so many others, adapted from teaticket's work
I'm keen to use the reallyearly Be2c, with a single fixed gun firing forwards on the left side (inspired by the 'Wings' series). I'm proposing to use this card, having nicked the arc from a Bristol Scout card. The arc is a bit generous, but I have to give them some chance against the Aviatik CI and Fokker EIII.
"SB" maneuver deck? typo? Ora custom deck? If the latter, what does the deck look like?
Little bit too generous perhaps, even on a Bristol. I know it's supposed to take in ability to yaw but that seems a bit in the extreme. It's your game though.I'm keen to use the reallyearly Be2c, with a single fixed gun firing forwards on the left side (inspired by the 'Wings' series)
The deck should be XB rather than SB, whatever that is.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
Do I understand that correctly? This one machine gun did not fire exactly forward, but tilted to the left? Is it known what the angle was?
Around 30 degrees from straight ahead, IIRC.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Hmmm, not sure where I got SB from - I do have some scans of one - however I'll change it to XB - and maybe trim the arc a bit.
Thanks
Better?
Well, this is the realm of house rules. Nothing is wrong, nothing is right.Better?
My 2 cents: Given that - according to Tim - the gun is directed 30 deg to the left, why not just turn the regular forward arc by 30 deg counterclockwise, keeping its angle?
He might make quite a mess of his wire and struts !
A narrow arc between the prop & the inboard strut is what most use to replicate a side mounted weapon - having the ability to fire forward defeats the intent really & would make the BE2 almost as deadly as any other plane of the time.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
Ok, I realize that it uses the XB deck which has 30 deg turns instead of the usual 60 deg.
The justification for a smaller angle could be that because of reduced maneuverability (and a less than optimal gun configuration), it shall be especially difficult to aim at targets. Probably, a 30 deg arc turned left by 30 deg would be consistent with the regular 60 deg arc pointing forward.
Actually, sometimes I do play WGS heavy fighter decks M,N with a reduced arc of half the regular angle. This increases the difference between planes and makes them more difficult to fly.
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