Bf.109E-3 and 4 guns?

[Jager]

I just read a posting on the Fighting Wings group that made the claim that no Bf.109 shot down over England during the Battle of Britian was cannon armed.
The poster stated that the British civil authorities were quite meticulous in keeping records of aircraft guns, and that more recent publications were more accurate on the armament of the early Messers.
JW (the game designer) asked for citations, so I might get more information.
This directly contradicts Greens writing in his book Warplanes of the Third Reich.
Has anyone come across this in their own readings?
If true, all 109s in the BoB, and earlier, would have guns of B/A, as the 20m cannon fitted to fire through the propellor shaft never really worked.

Karl

[Woof]

There should be British intelligence reports for most aircraft that came down over the UK, not sure how readily accessibly they will be online though. Might need to try the national archives, but some museums have reports online for their aircraft, the following is Black 12 at the RAF museum:

Report No.102/4 Me109. Crashed on 27.11.40 at 1555 hours on Manston
aerodrome. Markings (Black) 12 + (the 12 outlined in white). Cowling
and rudder yellow, spinner green with one white segment. No crest.
Airframe made by Erla Flugzeugwerke in 1940. Works number 4101. A
plate described the aircraft as being `Me109 Ele E3'. Engine DB601 A-1.
Number 64760 made by Daimler Benz, Genshagen. The new type of
supercharger was fitted. A constant speed airscrew is fitted with a notice
on the dashboard. `Machine has automatic airscrew. Follow the short
instructions for use'. Armament: 2 MG 17s and two 20mm shell guns.
Armour - normal fuselage bulkhead and pilot's head protection and
curved head shield. This aircraft was brought down by fighter action and
the pilot made a very good belly landing, the aircraft being little damaged.
Twelve .303 strikes in fuselage and a few in each wing, all coming from
the port quarter astern. Pilot prisoner. (This bullet damage is still
apparent.)

So certainly in Nov 1940, there were E3s/4s with cannon getting shot down. Is the claim that there were non with cannon flying during BoB, or just that none of the cannon armed aircraft were shot down. I find it somewhat hard to believe either. Given a significant number of losses may have been over water and some of those overland may not have been in a state that could be readily examined with accuracy, or examined with the same level of scrutiny as those that were relatively intact, I would suggest you would also need some solid primary sources from the German side to make that claim. Absence of evidence in RAF records is not evidence of absence.

[flash]

The one in IWM Duxford downed over Eastbourne in 1940 is an E3 with 20mm cannon in the wings. Apparently a lot didn't have/use the cannon through the prop as it caused issues with the engine.
Interesting video on it through this site https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/messe...tfires-nemesis