Origins 2018 - B-17 Mission

This is the one of the scenarios I was really looking forward to playing. It was a repeat of one I was in last year. I did well in that one, placing 2nd as one of the German pilots. That was my 2nd or 3rd game ever, and it taught me the importance of changing altitude when attacking bombers. Unfortunately, the decision was made that we would not use altitude rules for this one, which would have implications for me later on.

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The start was normal - start on the edge and fly right at each other.

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The first problem: as the Germans we're actually outnumbered here 6 to 5, in addition to the bombers. Although it could be said that this was historical, it made for (in my opinion) a rather dull game.

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At the merge. Coming to this point is where I would have changed altitude. I wanted to be one level above or below the bombers when I came to the merge and turned into the bombers. It would also have saved my bacon a couple of cards from now because the long range shot that shot me down wouldn't have been possible if I had been up or down a level.

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And the blood is drawn quickly. The FW on the left is hit by one of the bombers and is smoking. Toward the center, two of us split a P-51 kill (I'm in FW #6). Unfortunately for me, the stricken P-51 chose me as his target and managed to really shoot me up.

I should have plotted an Immelmann, but I didn't choosing to turn into the bombers. This was, again, not one of my better ideas.

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And down I go.

This was as close as I got to a bomber. I sat out the two-card wait to get back in - and got to move once before the game was called due to time.

This was a frustrating battle for me, and the one I enjoyed the least. It's hard enough to take on the B-17s with them having so many guns, and to be outnumbered by the Allied fighters on top of it just really took the fun out of the scenario. Our team did get one bomber kill because one of the other guys got a shot at one of them and drew the explosion chit. Other than that we didn't accomplish much. If they run this again next year I think the Germans should have a slight number advantage in fighters - the firepower coming from the bombers will make up for the difference.

This made two straight missions where I didn't fly particularly well. What I didn't know then was that my luck was about to change.

Tough going, Bob, but, again, well-documented for those of us who didn't get to experience Origins firsthand.
:sAprvd:

Nice AAR. Those Red Tailed P51's were Tuskagee Airmen? I am rewatching the movie at the moment.

rep guns jammed, so great pics! thanks for sharing!!!

You got just a taste of the real thing Bob. I just finished reading "The German Aces Speak" where Walter Krupinski talks about leading a Staffel of ten fighters against dozens of USAAF bombers escorted by hundreds of fighters. So not much fun but at least historically accurate. Next time try a head on attack on the B-17s then dive away, worked for the Luftwaffe!

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Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer

You got just a taste of the real thing Bob. I just finished reading "The German Aces Speak" where Walter Krupinski talks about leading a Staffel of ten fighters against dozens of USAAF bombers escorted by hundreds of fighters. So not much fun but at least historically accurate. Next time try a head on attack on the B-17s then dive away, worked for the Luftwaffe!

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My plan had been to change altitude going into the fighter merge (my preference was to climb) then turn into the trailing bomber at about his 7 o'clock, and hope the difference in altitude would keep me from getting shredded by all the bombers in the group.If it went well, depending on the situation maybe play a stall to get a second shot. I was hoping for two-dimensional thinking from the Mustangs to get through them.

As to the realism - I agree completely that it was realistic to be outnumbered. But it doesn't make for a very competitive game.

The WGS points system has those Mustangs at 209 points and the B17F's at 375.

6 P51's and 4 B17f's is 2754 points.

FW190's are 215 points so 5 of those is 1075

So yep, historically accurate but definitely not a balanced game!

When shot down planes get re-spawned the point difference is irrelevant... but I guess its how the GM determines the winners. I run lots of unbalanced scenarios and choose the best pilots from each side as the winners. Sometimes the weaker side does better overall. It all depends on who's flying and more important, the chit pulls.

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Originally Posted by Teaticket

When shot down planes get re-spawned the point difference is irrelevant... but I guess its how the GM determines the winners. I run lots of unbalanced scenarios and choose the best pilots from each side as the winners. Sometimes the weaker side does better overall. It all depends on who's flying and more important, the chit pulls.

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One of the many reasons why I refuse to play "points".

I haven't ever played points either, but work has been done by the designers to assist in the creation of balanced games, its a useful metric.

I just saw this Bob.
I'm glad you enjoyed Origins and am sorry you didn't enjoy this game.
The use of altitude would have made a big difference in this game as would the use of the revised BOOM card rule. If they would have used the revised BOOM card rule the B17 would have only taken half damage and would not have gone down.
Thanks for the game report.

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Originally Posted by Flying Helmut

One of the many reasons why I refuse to play "points".

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Me too. Its really hard to find the right planes for each side while still being equal.

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Originally Posted by Xen

I haven't ever played points either, but work has been done by the designers to assist in the creation of balanced games, its a useful metric.

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I like to use it as a reference, the same way I use the short range damage dealt ratio's as a metric. But that may not work for all scenario's. Perhaps the scenario is to see what you can do given a stacked deck, or vice versa.

Part of the beauty of the game is we can make it what we want.

Altitude rules with bombers can be important because of the top and bottom turrets, when on a 2D platform you can get shot with more guns, but with altitude, perhaps you can limit some of them. You could always house rule that by making bombers only get to pick top or bottom or whatnot.

As for the AAR, well done on all of them. Nice pics to see how origins plays. Thank you for sharing.

We did 12 B17's plus 2 P51 and 2 Spitfires as escort at Prague a few years back. Bombers controlled by myself. All at different altitudes. FW 190's and 262's attacking. A young Polish lad, forgive me for forgetting his name, flew through the bomber stream in his 262, obliterated 1 B17 but took heavy damage. We had flak, template, I think 3 B17's got shot down, and a number of fighters. Great game.

Loved the pics from Origins. Took me back to 2015.

Neil

I just saw this. I'm sorry for your disappointment and I feel for you. :(

I've never understood how anyone can play an air battle scenario without altitude ... especially since that's what most aerial tactics are based on.

As far as game balance is concerned, I've rarely (if ever) used points, I generally rely on objectives. Numbers don't matter (most real battles are fought with unbalanced numbers); it's whether your opponent is thwarted in achieving his goal that matters.

That being said, when hosting a "pickup" game somewhere, I WILL try to establish some semblance of balance based on the quality vs. quantity of the contending forces, or even the contenders themselves. Regardless, there's ALWAYS an objective. If nothing else, this sometimes shortens the game ... it certainly establishes a victory and defeat. There's nothing more boring than a couple of planes painstakingly buzzing around a table for an inordinate amount of time just trying to determine a winner.

Disappointment notwithstanding, thanks for a great AAR at least! Good luck next time. :thumbsup: